Interview with Asghar Ali Engineer

Irenees :

The theory of Huntington explains that today, we are in a civilization clash. According to you, how would you describe the current situation? What do you think?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

Huntington approach is very superficial. Civilizations don’t clash. Civilizations evolve after centuries of humanist struggle, so they civilize us, they make us peaceful, they make us work for the betterment of the entire humanity. Civilizations can’t clash. It is vested interests which clash. It is barbarians who clash. Civilizations don’t clash. Religions don’t clash. Yes, when vested interests control religion, then it is actually their interests which are clashing. But, they assume the garb of religion and all of us start thinking that religions are clashing. Religions never clash. All religions have core values. And those core values are complementary to each other. They strengthen each other. Huntington wrote that book with this specific objective because Soviet Union had collapsed and there was no external enemy for America. And America wanted to create an external enemy. So that it can justify wars, it can justify military industrial complex, and it can grab oil in the Middle East. For that, they needed a theory. And Huntington developed a theory for the American establishments. It is superficial. It is negative. It must be rejected.

Irenees :

How would you describe the situation today?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

Situation today is very worrisome. American foreign policies have created lot of conflicts in the Middle East. It supports Israel uncritically. And that support to Israel results in suppression of Palestinian rights, Palestinians’ struggle to go back to their land to create their own autonomous state. And that arouses anger in the entire Arab world, Muslim world. And that is why; some of them try to retaliate violently. As America Israel use violence, extremists Arabs also use violence or other Muslims, some extremists among all Muslims, they also believe in using violence against America.

Irenees :

Religion is seen as a factor of peace and also as a factor of violence. What do you think about that?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

You see, religion is for human being. All human being are generally for peace. And religion came to the world because there was turmoil, because there were conflicts, because there was greed, because there was feeling of revenge and anger. Religion came to teach them peace, to make them renounce their feeling of revenge, feeling of anger, to control their greed and desire. But some human beings promote their revenge, anger, greed with the help of religion. Religion is used as a tool, it can be used as an effective tool for peace, and it can be used as an effective tool for conflicts and violence. So basically, the purpose of religion is definitely peace and control of greed and desire.

Irenees :

Do you agree with the Notion of Islamist Terrorism? Is it a manipulation of religion?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

Definitely some people use religion, manipulate it for promoting their vested interests. And so, they promote violence in the world. They so cleverly manipulate religion that others come to believe that it is for the sake of religion. It is not for the sake of religion. It is for the sake of promoting vested interests. They use religion for political reasons.

Irenees :

What is the place of peace in Islam and the place of violence?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

Peace is central to Islam. The very word Islam means to establish peace. It comes from Salaam. Salaam means peace. In Hebrew it is Shalom. In Arabic it is Salaam. Salaam means peace. Even Muslims great each other with ‘Salaam Alaikkum’, peace be upon you. Peace is central to Islam that the greeting is also not Allah-Allah. Peace is very central. Violence is peripheral. When you are attacked, you use violence to defend yourself. To that extent, Koran permits violence. Otherwise Koran does not permit violence. Koran strongly condemns aggression.

Irenees :

How do you explain the Islam of the Talibans?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

You see, why is it that Talibans come into existence only 1989 onwards? There was no Talibans before that. And Islam has been there for fourteen hundred years. Taliban exists only for the last thirty years. Because America attacked, because the situation happened in Afghanistan a military group in the name of communist revolution took place. America got an opportunity to cease Soviet Union and the struggle started. They created Taliban in order to use them against Soviet Union. They gave them weapons, they gave them training and they described them as “Mujahidis”. This is a reason why Taliban came into existence. If America changes its foreign policy and adopts policy of non-interference in affairs of Afghanistan and in any country in the world, then there is proper development and the phenomenon of Taliban would cease. But America thinks that it can suppress Taliban with superior might. It never happens.

People use religion to promote their agenda. It is Taliban’s agenda to protect their land. But if they talk in the name of Islam they get lot of support. If they talk only in the name of nations they won’t get that much support. Then there are tribal laws in Afghanistan. Tribal laws are terrible. When you use religion you unite tribals. That is one more reason why they invoke Islam to fight against America. They get lot of support from Arab countries. They need money to fight America. That money will come only when you talk of religion. Otherwise in the name of Afghanistan nobody will give you money.

Irenees :

What is the future of the Talibans?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

Violence can never stabilize, only peace can stabilize. So, Taliban’s type of struggle against America will not succeed. I mean, violence create violence, it will go on into a vicious circle. Only when their struggle becomes peaceful, then only America will see the reason. I mean, by using violence you are arousing more anger in Americans. And they take more vicious than you take. It becomes a vicious circle. It has to be broken. I may support, or I may understand the reasons why the Talibans are using violence but I’ll never justify violence. I work for peace, my goal is peace, and my tool is also peace. That you achieve goal of peace by using tool of peace. My advice to Talibans would be to stop fighting with weapons and fight peacefully. And win the sympathy of the world. The world will be with you, not with America. Today because they use violence, media exaggerating things and sympathy of world goes to America. They will never win, they will have no future if they continue to use violence. But like Gandhi, if they use non violence and create sympathy in the entire world, they will win. They will have better future.

Irenees :

For Islam, what decides what is right and what is unright in the Koran?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

The only way is to understand Koran in its totality. Not taking one word from here and one from there. My methodology of understanding Koran is understanding Koran with the help of Koran. Not anything external to Koran. If you read Koran in totality and take all verses together, then you will understand its correct meaning rightly. This will not happen if you are using certain verses and others are using certain other versus. This will never resolve the controversies. Take Koran as a whole, read all verses together and decide what the ultimate intention of Koran is. Koran, as I said, permits violence to defend yourself but if you take only those verses which are allowing violence, it will be a distortion. Take those verses where Allah is stressing peace, Allah is motivating the Muslims to control their feeling of revenge, to control their anger, to control their greed and stand by truth and stand by peace. Collate these verses and you get the ultimate aim of Koran. This is what I have told in all my writings.

Irenees :

Talibans are Muslims or not Muslims?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

I would never describe anyone as Muslims or Kafirs. It is one’s inner voice to decide whether they consider themselves as Muslims or not. Otherwise every Muslim will consider other Muslim as non-Muslim. I don’t want to get into theological controversies. To judge them by their value centric behavior whether they are Muslims or not is a technical theological question. But whether they are human beings or not is not a technical question. We are all human beings and human beings should co-exist with peace and harmony. Not fight with weapons. People who use weapon to kill masses do not deserve to be called human beings. Are they Muslims is for them to decide. But for me they are not good human beings.

Irenees :

You said, two days ago that you were rejected by your community, can you explain me why?

Ali Asghar Engineer :

That is one sect in Islam to which I belong. Muslims are divided into many sects. I belong to one of the Shiah sects of Islam. And it is tightly controlled by priesthood. It has Church like structure. Priests control everything, not only religious aspects but also secular aspects. I’m fighting against that.

I am saying that this is not Islam. This is an interest. It is your greed which makes you want to control people. The priesthood attacks me since I am threatening their vested interests. It is not the question of modernity. Their children also study in best universities in America. They manipulate religion to get control over the minds of their followers. They don’t allow critical thinking, open mind. So those who talk of thinking critically and criticizing their ways they want to eliminate them.

Notas

• Asghar Ali Engineer, universitaire musulman indien, est internationalement connu pour son travail sur l’ouverture théologique islamique et contre le fondamentalisme et les violences ethniques en Asie du Sud Est. Il est a présent à la tête de l’Institut d’études islamiques et du Centre pour l’étude d’une société laïque à Bombay, deux organismes qu’il a fondés respectivement en 1980 et en 1993.

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